Towns That Seem To Counter Attack Constantly

Discussion Related to the ARMA 3 Server and ARMA 3 in General.
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IWilliamzI
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Towns That Seem To Counter Attack Constantly

Postby IWilliamzI » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:58 pm

Is this intentional?

I spent nearly a hour on a town where I would clear it, capture it and then move out of the town only for a very large amount mechanized armour and infantry to respawn just as I leave only to go back and fight for the town again. This happened three times.

Is this a bug currently or is it intended?

Was on Takistan in a town called Zavarak (NE).
Last edited by IWilliamzI on Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Brent
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Re: Towns That Seem To Counter Attack

Postby Brent » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:18 am

Towns spawn AI in waves/groups. When you activate a town, typically 2-5 clusters of units will spawn (groups of infantry/infantry+car/tank+infantry/heavy tank/etc.)

Depending on the town strength 60/70/80/100/etc., you will have to clear a certain number of clusters of units. When you completely wipe out a cluster, a new one will spawn somewhere within the town radius. In most cases, it's somewhere between 5-10 total clusters.

If you cap a flag at a town and leave enemy AI inside the town, they WILL eventually walk towards the flag and recap it from you (in most cases the safe route is to leave a friendly AI vehicle near the flag to babysit it for awhile if you left any stragglers in the town). If AI recap a town, you have to fully clear it again, there won't be less units.


Don't forget, if you are capping a town and are the only person there, if you die and no one else is at the town with you, the AI will reset after a minute or so if no one is within 750 M of the objective. This means if you are trying to cap a town without respawning near it, you are likely fighting a fully reset town every single time you drive back in range after dying (a common mistake by new players which makes it seem like the AI has never ending spawns)

Focke66
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Re: Towns That Seem To Counter Attack

Postby Focke66 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:05 pm

Game goes from that AI insanity straight to enemy air spam. I miss the mid game

Brent
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Re: Towns That Seem To Counter Attack

Postby Brent » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:52 pm

What would you consider the 'mid game'?

Typical games are 90 minutes of player vs AI, followed by player vs player with a variety of different vehicles/methods depending on who is playing.

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IWilliamzI
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Re: Towns That Seem To Counter Attack

Postby IWilliamzI » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:25 pm

Brent wrote:Towns spawn AI in waves/groups. When you activate a town, typically 2-5 clusters of units will spawn (groups of infantry/infantry+car/tank+infantry/heavy tank/etc.)

Depending on the town strength 60/70/80/100/etc., you will have to clear a certain number of clusters of units. When you completely wipe out a cluster, a new one will spawn somewhere within the town radius. In most cases, it's somewhere between 5-10 total clusters.

If you cap a flag at a town and leave enemy AI inside the town, they WILL eventually walk towards the flag and recap it from you (in most cases the safe route is to leave a friendly AI vehicle near the flag to babysit it for awhile if you left any stragglers in the town). If AI recap a town, you have to fully clear it again, there won't be less units.


Don't forget, if you are capping a town and are the only person there, if you die and no one else is at the town with you, the AI will reset after a minute or so if no one is within 750 M of the objective. This means if you are trying to cap a town without respawning near it, you are likely fighting a fully reset town every single time you drive back in range after dying (a common mistake by new players which makes it seem like the AI has never ending spawns)


I understand how and why they spawn but what I'm not understanding is the volume of very large counter attacks. it happened three times and there was a ridiculous amount of AI.

Focke66 wrote:Game goes from that AI insanity straight to enemy air spam. I miss the mid game


Yeah this is exactly what I miss.

So much focus on towns now days we miss the mid game PvP between Light armour and infantry. Feels like the mission is leaning more towards one of those coop scenario servers. Instead of actual early/mid game PvP.

I was playing yesterday and actually quit out of boredom which I've never done before with CTI. It was from the start to 3 hours in. The town grinding is far too much and got fed up of reseting because of memory leak just to do more town grinding. I prefer having Zerty's level of town AI. It wasn't too much and wasn't too easy. It should take about 20 minutes to clear a average town by yourself and 5 - 10 minutes with others. It's too tedious right now. Maybe it's because of playing during European time where there is about 5 - 15 players on. Not sure what the average is for US western time but it's probably a lot higher and easier with the amount of players going into each town.
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Focke66
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Re: Towns That Seem To Counter Attack

Postby Focke66 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:34 am

Brent wrote:What would you consider the 'mid game'?

Typical games are 90 minutes of player vs AI, followed by player vs player with a variety of different vehicles/methods depending on who is playing.



Everything in between the grinding of the first dozen towns and the enemy having T100's and jets to spam.

Hawkeye
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Re: Towns That Seem To Counter Attack

Postby Hawkeye » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:48 am

Focke66 wrote:
Brent wrote:What would you consider the 'mid game'?

Typical games are 90 minutes of player vs AI, followed by player vs player with a variety of different vehicles/methods depending on who is playing.



Everything in between the grinding of the first dozen towns and the enemy having T100's and jets to spam.
This really is the sweet spot, especially due to the idiocy of not being able to resupply top-tier ROCKETS at town centers.

So as soon as they get T100s, your infantry AT is practically useless since you use up your 2-3 barracks-bought rockets quickly and then either have to do a ridiculous respawn(barracks)-resupply-respawn(town) every few minutes or buy ineffective town center AT that requires 4-5 hits to do anything.

It makes PvP a matter of grinding out long trips with tanks, usually to die enroute by air attack, or to do this stupid infantry respawn dance (and good luck getting an ammo truck anywhere close to the front line and keeping it there).

I can understand not wanting to let players get top-tier weapon platforms at town centers, but they should be full-tier AMMO resupply points at least.

Especially since there are very stingy commanders out there that hoard money and you have to beg for every vehicle you buy, so you're sort of stuck as infantry often enough.

Hawkeye
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Re: Towns That Seem To Counter Attack Constantly

Postby Hawkeye » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:17 am

I also want to add that I'm not sure "rushing to the late game tech" is best, as it seems to be what everyone here is pushing for, with the higher starting supply. Personally, I love the early game COOP and the mid-game PvP that's fast, mostly LF and infantry based - it's the two most polished and enjoyable parts of Arma. Late game is grindy and miserable for me, personally. Best case, you have a winning team and can get some air up and dominate the battlefield. Worst case, you're on the losing end of air superiority and are fighting just to get tanks out of your base, which you then grindingly drive 5-10 minutes to the AO, just to get a few shots in before invariable something kills you, and you're back to begging com for money.

And this would be fine, IF IT LED TO A RAPID ENDGAME. It doesn't. There practically is no endgame right now (a common Warfare issue through the years, yes, but far worse with this version), even if the other team's com is incompetent, the endgame can take a couple hours.

I feel like this should be 30% early game COOP, 50% mid-game bulidup, and a rapid 20% destruction of late-game tech that leads to rapid wins, with a 4-5 hours time total.

It seems that as soon as HF upgrades start rolling, it's 30min before you go from APCs to T90s. Too much supply, poorly balanced upgrade paths/costs, and excessively strong base defenses are major issues. CRAMS needs to go. It just prolongs the game indefinitely.

I would hope you guys were collecting actual data through the server/scripting on how teams are typically advancing in upgrades, units purchased, and supply/money. Like every time someone buys/builds something it gets logged, and every few minutes a log is made of each team's upgrades and structures and money. Then you can graph it out (open source it please). This is a <1hr scripting project that would be very illuminating.

This would give you a window into how people are playing and how games are progressing beyond simple anecdote and personal opinion.

Hawkeye
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Re: Towns That Seem To Counter Attack Constantly

Postby Hawkeye » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:47 pm

Another AAR. Two actually.

First game I entered mid-gameish. Within 1-2 hours our base was surrounded with no way out, under constant air attack, and with a FOB set up 2km away that was spawn camping everything we tried to build. Okay, fine, we lost the game... except it kept going. And going. And going. Well past the point where you'd consider it a lost cause. Even though a few of us talked about selling off, there was no clear formal way to take a vote of that. The commander tried to take one, but only 3 of 8 or so people bothered responding. Eventually more joined (as many quit) and we had a commander election. I ran on a ticket of selling off and won. And we lost.

It worked, but only after much hemming and hawing and a confused bout of commander votes. There was no formal system in place to decide to surrender, and that would've saved a lot of wasted time and quitting players. I have to think there should be a way to copy the commander vote GUI for a surrender GUI.

SSneek
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Re: Towns That Seem To Counter Attack Constantly

Postby SSneek » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:07 am

"This really is the sweet spot, especially due to the idiocy of not being able to resupply top-tier ROCKETS at town centers."

pressing 'reload' at a town center reloads your last kit purchased, regardless of tech level. You can also buy rockets directly into a vehicle at base (even remotely to an AI in a jeep) and park it out in a safe spot. If I'm out anywhere I usually bring a med with some rockets ... if I change strategies, I buy a crewman in town and have him park it in an alley to prevent despawn until I get back.

"It seems that as soon as HF upgrades start rolling, it's 30min before you go from APCs to T90s. Too much supply, poorly balanced upgrade paths/costs, and excessively strong base defenses are major issues. CRAMS needs to go. It just prolongs the game indefinitely."


Supply is temporarily bumped up for testing, it's not permanent from what I understand. CRAMs are not strong at all -- get a respawn point nearby and lob an rpg or two for an easy bounty payday. Barrier nerfs are coming up and base HP was just nerfed last patch, but attacking a base should be a combined arms effort, so they'll never be weak enough for small groups to summarily end the game vs a defending force.

"The commander tried to take one, but only 3 of 8 or so people bothered responding. Eventually more joined (as many quit) and we had a commander election. I ran on a ticket of selling off and won. And we lost."


Bad commanders can not be patched out, unfortunately. If the game is over, find something fun to do on the side or politely inform your team and commander that you think it is time to surrender. If you can draw them to have a real discussion then you can then push everybody involved to make an well informed decision, immediately.

Also it's not illegal to go afk in BECTI. If the game is over but your team won't acknowledge the fact, you can always escape out to the lobby and take a break while things work themselves out.
Last edited by SSneek on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.


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